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jader201 60 days ago [-]
Some (mostly American?) people know Mahjong as a solitaire game [1] that they likely have played on their phone or Windows PC/Mac.
This article is talking about the (arguably less known?) 4-player competitive game [2], and assumes you already know the difference (which some may not).
> What followed was one of the biggest game fads in American history. Between roughly 1922 and 1924, mahjong exploded across the United States. Department stores couldn't keep sets in stock. Demand grew so quickly that bone and bamboo tiles had to be imported from China in enormous quantities. Newspapers ran columns explaining the rules. Eddie Cantor performed a hit song called "Since Ma Is Playing Mah Jong." Fashion designers created mahjong-themed clothing. Entire social calendars reorganized around the game.
bfbf 60 days ago [-]
Probably it’s less popular in America, but it’s huge in Asia, so I doubt the solitaire version is more well known globally
hdjrudni 59 days ago [-]
I only know the 4-player tile game, as a white dude from North America. But I only know from movies. I thought most people at least knew of it.
jader201 60 days ago [-]
Yes, but most of HN is outside Asia, so I feel the clarification is helpful here.
phantomathkg 60 days ago [-]
Solitaire version should be pretty well known due to the computer game.
bottlepalm 59 days ago [-]
It's not even talking about the American Mahjong variant which is super popular, mostly with older women, in surprise surprise America.
Less known to the Western centric HN crowd, maybe.
kyleblarson 60 days ago [-]
I only have 2 data points, but my mom in the southeastern US (in her 70's) and all of her friends have started playing and are fully addicted and the same seems to be true at my golf club in Inland Northwest. Maybe it's getting a toehold? (in a very non-HN demographic)
JamesSwift 59 days ago [-]
Yes its become a hot game among socialites. Complete with a SAAS subscription for the “yearly cards” and a marketing push to play the sanctioned version.
derbOac 58 days ago [-]
In my area it's become pretty popular, pretty broadly but especially with younger individuals.
ljm 59 days ago [-]
I know the 4 player version from the Yakuza games. I only knew about the solitaire version until then from a demo version on Net Yaroze on the PlayStation, where you basically got some weird games along side the demos on a new demo disc every month.
Reminds me of poker.
Also I miss the excitement of a new issue of a magazine with a demo disc of a few new games.
riffraff 59 days ago [-]
I did know mahjong as a solitaire game, but an arcade one! It was quite common in cabinets when I was a kid (80s-90s)
I only learned it was also multiplayer when it appeared in some movies.
djyde 60 days ago [-]
Playing mahjong together during Chinese New Year has become an essential tradition.
pigeons 59 days ago [-]
I never knew about the solitaire game but growing up in America, starting in childhood it seemed everyone "knew" (or thought they knew and spread rumors) why certain people were missing fingers.
mcfedr 59 days ago [-]
mostly people know if from windows i assume
tromp 60 days ago [-]
I've known about Mahjong for decades but TIL it has many similarities to a game I play regularly, Rummykub. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rummikub describes it as combining elements of the card game rummy and Mahjong.
Zababa 59 days ago [-]
Having played a lot of Rummikub with my grandparents and a lot of mahjong I'd say they feel pretty different.
hdjrudni 59 days ago [-]
Which is better/more fun? I only know Rummikub.
Zababa 59 days ago [-]
Mahjong to me feels faster paced, a bit more luck based, with higher highs and lower lows. Rummikub to me feels slower paced, less luck based. The scoring system in mahjong allows for way bigger differences in score than how I usually play Rummikub. Rummikub is easier to learn than mahjong.
I personally prefer mahjong, I'd say both are sufficiently different to be worth trying. If I want to play a game I'd play mahjong, if I want a physical game I can play at home with diverse people I'd pick rummikub.
CJefferson 60 days ago [-]
This is a really nice website!
In China it turns out there are lots of rule sets. The city I'm currently living in (Changsha) has it's own ruleset for example, with less tiles than these examples.
fortedoesnthack 60 days ago [-]
mahjong rulesets are wild. I play Japanese mahjong, and the difference between online and a mahjong parlor is quite different, making it interesting to see what people optimize for in those different settings
I think mahjong is probably "house rules the game" though. Pretty sure most mahjong hands probably just were a result of some guy being like "hey this hand looks like it should be scored man".
t-3 60 days ago [-]
It's similar to dominos then - every region and cultural/ethnic group has their own variant, and every family has their own house rules. Or craps! I was so confused my first time playing in a casino after learning to play in the streets.
gs17 59 days ago [-]
Yeah, the grad students near me always play Sichuan-style, because it's simpler (only numbered tiles, scoring is a bit easier).
djyde 60 days ago [-]
In my city, Guangdong, Cantonese mahjong doesn't allow chows, only pongs, and you need to self-draw to win.
wavemode 60 days ago [-]
Really lovely designed website.
Though I get the sense that, typically the easiest way to learn how to play a game, is to walk through actually playing the game. Listing out a bunch of facts about how the game works is mostly just confusing for a newcomer - the brain doesn't retain that kind of information well.
The example of this I often give is Magic: The Gathering. Very easy to learn how to play just by playing it with someone who knows. Very difficult to learn how to play if you start with a reference guide on how casting and the stack and priority and resolution works.
gyomu 60 days ago [-]
Related: Every Board Game Rulebook is Awful (100 page PDF)
Interesting... However, ironically, EBGRIA is awful too, in its own way. The typography is rudimentary.
nkrisc 60 days ago [-]
Any time someone starts explaining a new game to me I stop them and tell them to just start the game and walk me through it as we play. If I’m teaching someone a card game we’ll play open hand until they get it then start over. It’s kind of like a physical activity like riding a bike, you just gotta do it, not read about it.
flobosg 60 days ago [-]
In the Kaiji manga, the “Minefield Mahjong” arc uses a variation of Japanese Mahjong. It can be read without knowing the general rules (as I did), but I guess they make some of the scenes more understandable and/or impactful. Maybe I’ll give it a reread after checking this out.
chocochunks 60 days ago [-]
There are entire manga/anime centered around Mahjong, like Saki and the multitude of spin-offs. And there's many more than just those.
If you have a Nintendo Switch, Clubhouse 51 games includes a pretty decent Riichi Mahjong mode that'll explain all the rules too.
Zababa 59 days ago [-]
If you want to read manga for mahjong I'd say go straight for Akagi and Ten, by the same author. Akagi has a great anime adaptation that covers the first third. Both are excellent mangas in their own right, with or without understanding mahjong.
ViscountPenguin 60 days ago [-]
The kaiji author is a massive riichi fanatic if I recall correctly.
flobosg 60 days ago [-]
Yes, he is! (Which explains other of his mangas, Akagi):
> He has been playing mahjong since junior high school days, and admitted that though he has rarely lost a game when he was in school, his current level of ability is average. According to him, he has "tournament luck" and has even won mahjong tournaments between mahjong manga artists. He has also participated in professional mahjong matches. He played about two games against Akagi and Kaiji's voice actor Masato Hagiwara, who is known as one of the best mahjong players in the entertainment industry, and made Hagiwara say "I don't think I can beat him."
There are so many different variations of the rules, especially scoring. Scoring can vary even from family to family.
We've been learning for a few years now and still ignore things like prevailing winds and I don't remember what else off the top of my head. Basically we have a document of our own rules and we add to it as we get more advanced. Eventually we'll play with the winds and seasons and the goal is Hong Kong scoring.
shlant 60 days ago [-]
just played with an American friend who was learning for the first time yesterday. The winds are by far the most annoying part. Not only is the order of them different than what most people are used to (ESWN vs NESW) but the points you get for each depend on what wind you are and this is on top of having to memorize the Chinese characters (although of course some sets number them). Great game but so many little special cases that can make it intimidating to learn.
Don't even get me started on scoring when you are gambling (although the dynamics of who pays who and how much is interesting)
Steve44 59 days ago [-]
I've been playing a few times a year with family and once we got over the steep learning curve we really enjoy it and play for many hours several times a year.
What has helped a LOT is we've developed a double sided sheet we print out with the basic game mechanics, tiles, and scoring. It still needs some tweaking but means our rules[1] are clear and we can quickly refer to them as we're playing.
We've a second sheet which shows the winds, once that's been decided we just just orientate it with the players.
[1] We're very aware there are lots of sets of rules, we've just decided on the ones we consistently play.
Taikonerd 59 days ago [-]
I wish the rules were trimmed down a little. I feel like there's a really lovely tight game under all the accumulated house rules and finicky stuff. And the existing rules tend to scare off newbies.
Really well made website. I played a few times in Shenzhen (slightly different rules), but it's difficult to find players willing to accommodate a beginner because Mahjong players typically play really fast (I'd say on average <1s per turn).
lefra 60 days ago [-]
> Every fan doubles your base points
Did I miss it, or are the "base points" never explained?
ww520 60 days ago [-]
Base point is like the minimum payout. All players agree upon a minimum payout (base point) ahead of time. E.g. $10 as the minimum for the first fan. A fan literally means doubling. A 4 fan win means the payout is $10x2x2x2=$80 from each losing party. It can go up very quickly.
b450 60 days ago [-]
We play with a base point being a dime or a quarter. Note also that the function from fan to points is subject to house rules, it's not always p(f) = 2^f (I've seen rules for example that start to "level off" the payout at higher fan values).
I'd add the note that the whole strategy of mahjong really only gets interesting when you play repeated hands (a full game has at least 16 hands, with each player acting as the dealer once per prevailing wind) and when you're gambling (or otherwise tracking points). Most house rules also enforce a minimum fan value for a winning hand, banning the "chicken hand" which wins but scores no points. We play with a 2 fan minimum. If you just play for mahjong (i.e. a a hand that "wins" the round regardless of score), the game is a pretty uninteresting game of luck, and you're not incentivized to gun for the higher scoring hands.
ww520 59 days ago [-]
Yes. Many people set a limit on the maximum payout as doubling goes up very fast. A 8-fan win is $1280 payout, from each player. People usually limit the max to be 9 fan.
otabdeveloper3 60 days ago [-]
[dead]
mark_l_watson 60 days ago [-]
A friend taught me and a few other friends how to play Mahjong early this year. Great game! You do need a skilled instructor and four people to play. This article is good, I wish that I had it five months ago.
kadoban 58 days ago [-]
Riichi mahjong has a very common three player variant that is quite good.
jedimastert 59 days ago [-]
I knew some of the basics of mahjong but didn't realize it was almost exactly like rummy, to the point that it would be very difficult to believe they aren't somehow related.
FarhadG 60 days ago [-]
Love it!
Question for HN: I've seen more and more of these interactive explainers popping up recently. Given these are far more approachable to build due to LLM capabilities (e.g. Claude artifacts, open generative UI, etc.), what is the community reaction around having a product tailored for creating and distributing these experiences?
I've been experimenting over the past 6 months with interactive educational materials and curious on the community sentiment around this topic.
Jigsy 58 days ago [-]
I didn't have much interest in Mahjong originally, but after playing Yakuza 0 back in 2016(?) I really got into it.
nyanmatt 60 days ago [-]
One important note I didn’t see here:
- For league play, the scoring hands change every year!
johnhamlin 60 days ago [-]
I think you’re thinking of American mahjong. Which I can’t understand for the life of me how it’s gotten so popular. The ratio of luck to skill is completely upside down
ZekeSulastin 60 days ago [-]
Doesn’t that only apply to American style?
Jotalea 58 days ago [-]
i was pretty confused until i realized this article is about the multiplayer version of this game, and not the solitaire version i've seen my whole life.
imba404 59 days ago [-]
Mahjong is like religion. The variant you're most comfortable with is the one you were taught. And no one can agree which is the best.
jepix 59 days ago [-]
Awesome website! Here in Italy we also have our set of rules. It was pretty popular (and maybe still is) among elder people in Ravenna.
puterich123 60 days ago [-]
Pretty cool site, we were trying to figure out the scoring system the other day. I don‘t think the replay button is needed though
derekchan 59 days ago [-]
The Chinese for Hong Kong style "standard hand" is wrong. It should be 雞胡. Probably should be 0 fan too.
bfbf 60 days ago [-]
Thank you for this. Playing with my in-laws I’m always completely baffled by the scoring!
test1235 60 days ago [-]
can someone explain this bit to me:
Break the wall
Whose wall?
Count the total counter-clockwise starting from the dealer (East = 1).
東 East 1 · 5 · 9
南 South 2 · 6 · 10
西 West 3 · 7 · 11
北 North 4 · 8 · 12
East -> South -> West -> North - is that not clockwise? What am I missing?
tovej 60 days ago [-]
No, south sits to the right of east, west to the right of south, and north to the right of west.
All chinese card games go counter-clockwise. And the compass directions have a standard order, from 1-4: ESWN. Which is why the seat order is not the same as it would be on a compass.
Steve44 59 days ago [-]
I think the problem is that website shows NESW going clockwise, is should be the other way.
> N
> E W
> S
(sorry about formatting)
hunglee2 62 days ago [-]
finally, a decent guide for proper Mahjong!
vehemenz 60 days ago [-]
I haven't played in years, and this was an excellent refresher.
OP, can you please include Beijing rules?
samarthv 60 days ago [-]
I can finally learn this game!!!
haunter 60 days ago [-]
Some resources if you want to learn and player riichi, the japenese variant
TLDR: Download both Mahjong Soul and Kemono and play a lot. If you don't understand something then look up on the riichi wiki or ask the mahjong reddit or the Mahjong Soul Discord.
It's much much easier to learn riichi through a game then buying a set and sit down playing. Especially if it's 4 brand new players together.
Mind you riichi/mahjong doesn't have rules like chess which are set in stone. There are local rules, competitions differ, video games play differently. The core rules are the same but there are many many optional rules. A lot of confusion comes from this.
That being said the riichi wiki is pretty good and has info about basically everything https://riichi.wiki/Main_Page
https://www.reddit.com/r/Mahjong/ is incredibly helpful for every ruleset not just riichi if you have questions like why I'm not winning (99 out of 100 times: no yaku) or which set to buy etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlnC2rgIPrc This video if you want to play IRL. How to setup the table, the tiles, when to draw from where. Video games has the problem of "hiding" certain elements of the gameplay like how to draw from the dead wall after a kan and replenishing it.
If you play IRL then the Riichi compass that you can use both as a quick calculator and as the name implies a compass: you put down in the middle on a phone/tablet, set up a new game and after that you use it as an automatic score calculator https://riichi.onecomp.one/
- https://mahjongsoul.game.yo-star.com/ Mahjong Soul which is a gacha game but that doesn't affect the gameplay, pure cosmetic. It has a decent tutorial, very good QoL features helping the gameplay, and a big playerbase for PvP for every rank and custom modes. You can also play 3 player riichi (sanma) and there are custom lobbies where you can play with friends and setup your own rules (I actually learned here with people on a Discord call)
- https://www.mahjong-jp.com/ Riichi City which is the newer and main competitior of Mahjong Soul. I haven't played that much here but some people prefer this but there aren't that many differences either.
- https://tenhou.net/ (https://riichi.wiki/Tenhou.net) which is popular in Japan. It has less players than Mahjong Soul but some people say at higher ranks there are better gameplay, more skillful players. ymmv if you watch japanese streamers or pros they usually both play Tenhou and Mahjong Soul and reaching the top is a lot of time so doesn't really affect new players.
- https://cyberdog.ca/kemono-mahjong/ Kemono is not the best game but it has 2 very big pros: arguably the best tutorial how to play. And it has offline mode against AI characters. So if you mostly play on phone and want to play riichi while hiking in the Himalayas then Kemono is probably the best choice. The non-traditonal portrait mode on phone is different compared to other clients
- https://www.amatsukimahjong.com/en/ Has to mention this because it’s a good one where you can play multiple rulesets easily. HK, Taiwan, Riichi
Zababa 59 days ago [-]
Riichi City gives you the score you'll make when you declare riichi or declare winning, and also shows which tiles were discarded just after being drawn in the discard piles. Mahjong Soul doesn't do that.
kadoban 58 days ago [-]
Riichi City the app is better than Mahjong Soul, but the matching/rating system sucks.
It's also like, straight up softcore porn with the avatars. Which is fine I guess, but I feel gross playing it in public, which is annoying. Mahjsoul is not a lot better there, but a little.
haunter 59 days ago [-]
The two games combined together would be the best riichi client
This article is talking about the (arguably less known?) 4-player competitive game [2], and assumes you already know the difference (which some may not).
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahjong_solitaire
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahjong
https://bamgoodtime.com/blog/history-of-american-mahjong
> What followed was one of the biggest game fads in American history. Between roughly 1922 and 1924, mahjong exploded across the United States. Department stores couldn't keep sets in stock. Demand grew so quickly that bone and bamboo tiles had to be imported from China in enormous quantities. Newspapers ran columns explaining the rules. Eddie Cantor performed a hit song called "Since Ma Is Playing Mah Jong." Fashion designers created mahjong-themed clothing. Entire social calendars reorganized around the game.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_mahjong
Reminds me of poker.
Also I miss the excitement of a new issue of a magazine with a demo disc of a few new games.
I only learned it was also multiplayer when it appeared in some movies.
I personally prefer mahjong, I'd say both are sufficiently different to be worth trying. If I want to play a game I'd play mahjong, if I want a physical game I can play at home with diverse people I'd pick rummikub.
In China it turns out there are lots of rule sets. The city I'm currently living in (Changsha) has it's own ruleset for example, with less tiles than these examples.
I think mahjong is probably "house rules the game" though. Pretty sure most mahjong hands probably just were a result of some guy being like "hey this hand looks like it should be scored man".
Though I get the sense that, typically the easiest way to learn how to play a game, is to walk through actually playing the game. Listing out a bunch of facts about how the game works is mostly just confusing for a newcomer - the brain doesn't retain that kind of information well.
The example of this I often give is Magic: The Gathering. Very easy to learn how to play just by playing it with someone who knows. Very difficult to learn how to play if you start with a reference guide on how casting and the stack and priority and resolution works.
https://boardgametextbook.com/EBGRIA.pdf
Overview here: https://boardgamegeek.com/blog/13453/blogpost/164134/every-b...
If you have a Nintendo Switch, Clubhouse 51 games includes a pretty decent Riichi Mahjong mode that'll explain all the rules too.
> He has been playing mahjong since junior high school days, and admitted that though he has rarely lost a game when he was in school, his current level of ability is average. According to him, he has "tournament luck" and has even won mahjong tournaments between mahjong manga artists. He has also participated in professional mahjong matches. He played about two games against Akagi and Kaiji's voice actor Masato Hagiwara, who is known as one of the best mahjong players in the entertainment industry, and made Hagiwara say "I don't think I can beat him."
―https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobuyuki_Fukumoto
We've been learning for a few years now and still ignore things like prevailing winds and I don't remember what else off the top of my head. Basically we have a document of our own rules and we add to it as we get more advanced. Eventually we'll play with the winds and seasons and the goal is Hong Kong scoring.
Don't even get me started on scoring when you are gambling (although the dynamics of who pays who and how much is interesting)
What has helped a LOT is we've developed a double sided sheet we print out with the basic game mechanics, tiles, and scoring. It still needs some tweaking but means our rules[1] are clear and we can quickly refer to them as we're playing.
We've a second sheet which shows the winds, once that's been decided we just just orientate it with the players.
[1] We're very aware there are lots of sets of rules, we've just decided on the ones we consistently play.
Interestingly, an experienced player proposed "Tibet rules," which are rules specifically for newbies that cut out a lot of the advanced mechanics: https://riichi.wiki/index.php?title=Tibet_rules&mobileaction...
for a more comprehensive visual guide
Did I miss it, or are the "base points" never explained?
I'd add the note that the whole strategy of mahjong really only gets interesting when you play repeated hands (a full game has at least 16 hands, with each player acting as the dealer once per prevailing wind) and when you're gambling (or otherwise tracking points). Most house rules also enforce a minimum fan value for a winning hand, banning the "chicken hand" which wins but scores no points. We play with a 2 fan minimum. If you just play for mahjong (i.e. a a hand that "wins" the round regardless of score), the game is a pretty uninteresting game of luck, and you're not incentivized to gun for the higher scoring hands.
Question for HN: I've seen more and more of these interactive explainers popping up recently. Given these are far more approachable to build due to LLM capabilities (e.g. Claude artifacts, open generative UI, etc.), what is the community reaction around having a product tailored for creating and distributing these experiences?
I've been experimenting over the past 6 months with interactive educational materials and curious on the community sentiment around this topic.
- For league play, the scoring hands change every year!
Break the wall
Whose wall?
Count the total counter-clockwise starting from the dealer (East = 1).
東 East 1 · 5 · 9
南 South 2 · 6 · 10
西 West 3 · 7 · 11
北 North 4 · 8 · 12
East -> South -> West -> North - is that not clockwise? What am I missing?
All chinese card games go counter-clockwise. And the compass directions have a standard order, from 1-4: ESWN. Which is why the seat order is not the same as it would be on a compass.
> N
> E W
> S
(sorry about formatting)
OP, can you please include Beijing rules?
TLDR: Download both Mahjong Soul and Kemono and play a lot. If you don't understand something then look up on the riichi wiki or ask the mahjong reddit or the Mahjong Soul Discord.
It's much much easier to learn riichi through a game then buying a set and sit down playing. Especially if it's 4 brand new players together.
Mind you riichi/mahjong doesn't have rules like chess which are set in stone. There are local rules, competitions differ, video games play differently. The core rules are the same but there are many many optional rules. A lot of confusion comes from this.
This is for example the comparison chart of popular riichi rulesets https://riichi.wiki/Comparison_of_popular_rulesets
That being said the riichi wiki is pretty good and has info about basically everything https://riichi.wiki/Main_Page
https://www.reddit.com/r/Mahjong/ is incredibly helpful for every ruleset not just riichi if you have questions like why I'm not winning (99 out of 100 times: no yaku) or which set to buy etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlnC2rgIPrc This video if you want to play IRL. How to setup the table, the tiles, when to draw from where. Video games has the problem of "hiding" certain elements of the gameplay like how to draw from the dead wall after a kan and replenishing it.
This yaku, scoring, and teaching sheet for IRL play https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/18hxO5DMVAqxSNV9VvpjA...
If you play IRL then the Riichi compass that you can use both as a quick calculator and as the name implies a compass: you put down in the middle on a phone/tablet, set up a new game and after that you use it as an automatic score calculator https://riichi.onecomp.one/
https://discord.com/invite/mahjongsoul if you have instant questions and need help
The riichi book is the next step once you understand the game and wants to learn strategies https://dainachiba.github.io/RiichiBooks/
As for where to play digitally:
- https://mahjongsoul.game.yo-star.com/ Mahjong Soul which is a gacha game but that doesn't affect the gameplay, pure cosmetic. It has a decent tutorial, very good QoL features helping the gameplay, and a big playerbase for PvP for every rank and custom modes. You can also play 3 player riichi (sanma) and there are custom lobbies where you can play with friends and setup your own rules (I actually learned here with people on a Discord call)
- https://www.mahjong-jp.com/ Riichi City which is the newer and main competitior of Mahjong Soul. I haven't played that much here but some people prefer this but there aren't that many differences either.
- https://tenhou.net/ (https://riichi.wiki/Tenhou.net) which is popular in Japan. It has less players than Mahjong Soul but some people say at higher ranks there are better gameplay, more skillful players. ymmv if you watch japanese streamers or pros they usually both play Tenhou and Mahjong Soul and reaching the top is a lot of time so doesn't really affect new players.
- https://cyberdog.ca/kemono-mahjong/ Kemono is not the best game but it has 2 very big pros: arguably the best tutorial how to play. And it has offline mode against AI characters. So if you mostly play on phone and want to play riichi while hiking in the Himalayas then Kemono is probably the best choice. The non-traditonal portrait mode on phone is different compared to other clients
- https://www.amatsukimahjong.com/en/ Has to mention this because it’s a good one where you can play multiple rulesets easily. HK, Taiwan, Riichi
It's also like, straight up softcore porn with the avatars. Which is fine I guess, but I feel gross playing it in public, which is annoying. Mahjsoul is not a lot better there, but a little.